Digital Video Fuel hosts some papers on codecs at www.digitalvideofuel.com that may also be of help.
00
19:05:41 [Mitch] Fernando will start the discussion with some background about codecs
19:05:48 [Nancy] *taking my seat in the front row*
19:05:56 [Mitch] and discuss using codecs in editing
19:06:33 [Mitch] I'll follow him with some specifics about codecs used on the Web, pros and cons
19:06:54 [Mitch]
and now Fernando has the stage
19:07:10 [FM] thanks *bows*
19:07:24 [FM] Ok let’s start by defining: CODEC – COmpressor DECompressor
19:07:38 [FM] Basically consist of algorithms that handle the compression of data,
19:07:48 [FM] in this case video and audio to make it easier to work with and store, as well as the decompression of video for playback or
19:08:04 [FM] editing.
19:08:13 [FM] To state the obvious, the need for compression arises from the need to deal, in a practical way, with large amounts of data.
19:08:27 [FM] Now let’s see how compression works by an example:
19:08:38 [FM] Lets say we have a large text such as:
19:08:51 [FM] Letters and words in our document are not equally likely;
19:09:00 [FM] There will be much repetition of a certain class of letters, as well as words.
19:09:11 [FM] By removing every “a”:
19:09:23 [FM] Letters nd words in our document re not eqully likely;
19:09:33 [FM] There will be much repetition of certin clss of letters, s well s words.
19:09:43 [FM] We maintained the message almost readable and removed 8 characters: we compressed data.
19:09:55 [FM] But this kind of compression is called Lossy: the data is discarded and not recoverable.
19:10:03 [FM] And it can be more efficient with some messages than others
19:10:08 [FM] ok?
19:10:25 [Mitch] ok
19:10:27 [Nancy] yes - great explanation.
19:10:57 [FM] good
19:11:06 [FM] We cannot arbitrarily chop out letters and characters because by doing so we will change the message that is received.
19:11:23 [FM] We must have a way to reduce the data temporarily, and then the receiver must be able to expand it back
19:11:35 [FM] to its original size, losing no information
19:11:45 [FM] The previous sentence contains a number of repeated patterns of characters
19:11:53 [FM] We can assign a number to each one of them (the computer already does that) and a code to each pattern.
19:12:02 [FM] Like: er, ly, and other patterns.
19:12:15 [FM] The longer the pattern the shorter the code.
19:12:25 [FM] This is a simple explanation of the Huffman coding technique used in most compression algorithms
19:12:35 [FM] After the compressed file is decompressed, the original frequency of components is restored.
19:12:41 [FM] That’s the basics of compression
19:12:47 [FM] ok?
19:12:56 [Nancy] okay
19:13:01 [Mitch] good explanation
19:13:33 [FM] Now most of us have used at least once Zip or RAR compressors
19:13:45 [FM] They basically find patterns in binary & reduce the files to a table of codes
19:13:55 [FM] and restore them back to their original content
19:14:06 [FM] This kind of compression is lossless.
19:14:23 [FM] ok, so far?
19:14:32 [Mitch] yep
19:14:38 [Nancy] okay -- so far.
19:14:56 [FM] The thing is that they don’t work well with video or audio.
19:15:05 [FM] Video is composed of a number of images per second
19:15:18 [FM] the frame rate
19:15:29 [FM] So the first step to compress it had to come from an algorithm similar to JPEG, & called MJPEG.
19:15:52 [FM] JPEG is a standard for the data compression of still pictures. It offers data compression of between two and 100 times.
19:16:10 [FM] The interpolation of the data is said to be spatial since compares one point of the image with its neighbors
19:16:19 [FM] In blocks of (usually) 8 by 8
19:16:28 [FM] Depending on the amount of compression it can be lossless or lossy.
19:16:35 [FM] ok?
19:16:48 [Nancy] ok
19:16:49 [Mitch] ok
19:17:08 [FM] MJPEG = Motion JPEG
19:17:18 [FM] Its base is that each frame is compressed independently of the other frames (or pictures): intra-frame compression
19:17:31 [FM] because this compression process only removes redundant information from within the frame itself.
19:17:45 [FM] So these are the famous I-frames…
19:17:53 [FM] MJPEG has only I-frames
19:18:04 [FM] All DV compression is I-frame only.
19:18:13 [FM] That’s what makes DV editable.
19:18:24 [FM] ok so far?
19:18:30 [Mitch] yes
19:19:00 [FM] This is not enough compression for distribution over the net, or for DVD
19:19:12 [FM] For these we have to use a different type of codec
19:19:27 [FM] Like MPEG and others Mitch will talk about
19:19:45 [FM] Mpeg has many flavors ever since it came out for the first time.
19:19:56 [FM] Mpg-1 was designed to work at 1.2 Mb/s, the basic data rate of CD-ROMs, so that video could be played from CDs.
19:20:11 [FM] Its quality is not sufficient for TV broadcast.
19:20:44 [FM] Mpeg as a different concept than M-JPEG: it uses both intra-frames and inter-frames compression
19:20:58 [FM] Inter-frames is a type of compression that processes information from a group of consecutive frames
19:21:10 [FM] GOP – Group of pictures
19:21:26 [FM] When the MPEG compression process begins, an initial I-frame is coded.
19:21:38 [FM] This I frame is the exact type of model as used in M-JPEG.
19:21:50 [FM] It is a standalone frame in that it is completely independent and can be drawn and displayed
19:22:02 [FM] based solely on the data that it contains.
19:22:12 [FM] ok?
19:22:56 [Mitch] yes
19:23:14 [FM] Guess I lost you guys somewhere
19:23:19 [FM] too fast?
19:23:27 [DavidY] I'm fine
19:23:54 [FM] P-frames are created based on predictive coding.
19:24:03 [FM] For example, if we have a sequence of numbers: 2, 4, 6, 8,...
19:24:12 [FM] we can somewhat reliably predict the continuing sequence: 10, 12, 14, etc.
19:24:23 [FM] This is predictive coding
19:24:34 [FM] questions?
19:24:43 [Nancy] makes sense
19:25:00 [Mitch] no, I always wondered what the P stood for
19:25:17 [FM] mind you, these are not COMPLETE frames, but a prediction
19:25:47 [FM] I frames and P frames do not follow one another . between the I and P frames are B-frames
19:26:01 [FM] B-frames are bidirectionally interpolated from the closest I and P frames
19:26:16 [FM] B-frames - frames that do not truly exist in terms of their data content.
19:26:25 [FM] They are interpolated and drawn based on the information contained in frames that do have true data
19:26:36 [FM] either the closest pair of I and P frames or the closest pair of P frames.
19:26:50 [FM] The interpolation of the data is said to be temporal since compares one point of the image with its neighbors
19:26:57 [Mitch] ok
19:26:59 [FM] in blocks; of (usually) 8 by 8 but it also compares <B>blocks<B> between frames within a GOP
19:27:18 [FM] ok?
19:27:36 [Mitch] yea
19:27:54 [DavidY] I-frames refer to intra-frames - what is the designation for inter-frames?
19:27:55 [Nancy] oh hold up a sec - let me read this again
19:27:59 [FM] By using predictive coding (P frames) and bidirectionally interpreting frames (B-frames),
19:28:12 [FM] ok ,nancy
19:28:33 [Nancy] okay ready
19:28:48 [FM] Inter frames refer to interpolation between frames
19:29:15 [FM] Intra Frames refers to interpolation within a frame
19:29:29 [FM] ok?
19:29:38 [Mitch] ok
19:29:40 [DavidY] Right - so there is no ?-frame designation for inter-frames?
19:30:00 [FM] no
19:30:08 [DavidY] Okay.
19:30:12 [Nancy] ok
19:30:22 [FM] just because this interpolation has to do with GOPs
19:30:37 [FM] Groups Of Pictures
19:30:45 [FM] ok?
19:31:02 [Mitch] yes
19:31:11 [FM] By using predictive coding (P frames) and bidirectionally interpreting frames (B-frames),
19:31:18 [FM] only storing changes in data (P frames), and only periodically storing all data (I-frames),
19:31:24 [FM] MPEG compression offers greater storage savings than M-JPEG techniques.
19:31:49 [DavidY] Is there a difference between a keyframe and the I-frame?
19:32:11 [FM] yes & no...
19:32:33 [FM] when used in a CODEC context, those are the same
19:32:54 [FM] a Keyframe is always an I-Frame
19:33:22 [FM] when used in animation a keyframe is just a reference frame
19:33:29 [Mitch] ok
19:33:47 [DavidY] What's the difference?
19:33:48 [FM] that has to do with objects behaviours
19:34:07 [FM] sorry I'm a slow typist
19:34:57 [FM] a keyframe in animation stores info about an object's properties
19:35:13 [FM] on a specific time of the animation
19:35:37 [FM] an I-frame is a form of compression
19:35:43 [FM] ok?
19:36:01 [Nancy] okay got it.
19:36:12 [DavidY] Ok. What about non-animation?
19:36:58 [FM] then we are talking about compression
19:37:12 [Mitch] Fernando, statement about animation applies to any editing changes
19:37:48 [Mitch] go ahead Fernando
19:37:57 [FM] or that, yes
19:38:34 [FM] mpeg-2 is used on DVD's
19:39:13 [FM] if they comply with certain specs, also called profiles
19:39:44 [FM] I have a table on my glossary if people are interested in knowing more
19:40:15 [FM] other than that it also used to publish content over the internet
19:40:26 [Mitch] I'll have to look at it later
19:41:00 [FM] Non of the codecs based on mpeg are optimal for editing
19:41:32 [FM] the cut point must be always on an I frame
19:42:05 [FM] & we only have one of these on a GOP when dealing with mpeg
19:42:26 [FM] ok?
19:42:52 [DavidY] What do you think of Mainconcept's claim to have an editable MPEG codec?
19:42:52 [Mitch] just wondering...is it theoritcally possible to build an I-frame to make a cut
19:42:55 [Nancy] ok
19:43:10 [Mitch] if you had enough preceding video?
19:43:42 [FM] you can always do that, but the quality would be extremely poor
19:44:15 [Mitch] I think Mainconcept is building an Mpeg2 plug-in for premiere
19:44:16 [FM] the only editing stations I know of that had the ability to edit mpg
19:44:21 [Mitch] ok
19:44:50 [FM] had a GOP of both I & P frames only
19:45:01 [FM] or only I frames
19:45:13 [Mitch] yep
19:45:23 [FM] & the file size goes way up from the normal GOP
19:45:45 [FM] let me give n example of a GOP
19:45:45 [Mitch] ok
19:46:30 [FM] I-B-B-P-B-B-P-B-B-P-B-B
19:46:57 [FM] is a normal GOP configuration on a mpeg
19:47:01 [Mitch] I see the problem
19:47:20 [FM]
19:47:48 [FM] more questions
19:47:54 [FM] ?
19:48:12 [Mitch] just on timing, I'll do the discussion about quicktime, real, windows media tomorrow
19:48:36 [FM] oooops! was I that long?
19:48:42 [Mitch] no questions
19:49:06 [Mitch] it has all been very good
19:49:21 [FM] sorry mitch... I'll have to work on my timings
19:49:41 [Mitch] no problems...go ahead and finish up
19:50:17 [FM] I was just about to leave it at that
19:50:27 [FM] DivX is a form of mpeg-4 & both of these are based on mpeg-2
19:50:32 [Nancy] very helpful.
19:51:00 [FM] so none of them can be edited... & that was it
19:51:21 [Mitch] ok I'll talk about standards
19:51:32 [FM] ok
19:52:01 [Mitch] Standards are a wonderful thing, they allow any commercial DVD to play in any DVD player
19:52:16 [Mitch] but they also limit innovation
19:52:46 [Mitch] we still use NTSC and PAL for broadcasting and these were developed in the 50s
19:53:42 [Mitch] If you're dealing with a hardware device like a DVD player or video on a telephone, standards are crucial because
19:54:04 [Mitch] it may be difficult to update the software
19:55:04 [Mitch] The Internet is a different place....it suffers from a lack of standards
19:55:23 [Mitch] but updating software is relatively easy
19:56:13 [Mitch] MPEG-1 has been used quite a bit on the Internet but it has been largely been replaced
19:56:28 [Mitch] because of the relatively poor compression
19:57:04 [Mitch] MPEG-4 has been proposed as a new video standard for the Internet but hasn't been widely accepted
19:57:41 [Mitch] primarily because the standards process is so slow that better technology has since come out
19:58:18 [Nancy] ok
13:01:01 [Mitch] At the last session, Fernando did a great job of explaining codecs, GOPs, and MPEG
13:01:16 [psturgill] GOP?
13:01:25 [Mitch] so in a break from the usual we're doing a 2 part session
13:01:35 [FM] Group Of Pictures
13:01:36 [slakrboy] Group of Pictures -- its an MPEG THING
13:01:56 [psturgill] ok...sorry
13:01:58 [Mitch] You'll have to see the log...sorry I don't want to repeat everything
13:02:07 [FM] go on mitch
13:02:26 [Mitch] I want to focus on Web video but 1st a little side trip
13:02:40 [Mitch] To VCD, SVCD, and DVD
13:03:09 [Mitch] VideoCD is MPEG-1 video and supported by many DVD players
13:03:19 [Mitch] it is video on a CD
13:03:40 [slakrboy] It has certain format requirements, though
13:03:53 [Mitch] Great in theory but the video quality is poor, particularly for video with lots of motion
13:04:13 [Mitch] slakrboy, yes...
13:04:57 [Mitch] SuperVideoCD is MPEG2 video, similar to DVD, but at a lower bitrate than DVD
13:05:11 [slakrboy] Bit rate of 1150 for video, 224 MPEG audio... 352x240 (NTSC
13:05:29 [Mitch] also on a CD, not supported as much by as VCD on DVD players
13:05:49 [Mitch] Also poor quality compared to most DVDs....
13:06:25 [Mitch] My opinion is that VCD and SVCD are fading out with DVD discs becoming more affordable
13:07:02 [Mitch] With DVDs, Fernando explained in great detail about Mpeg2, so I won't repeat that
13:07:33 [Mitch] but it is worth noting that the DVD spec supports several different audio formats
13:08:01 [Mitch] The primary codecs are PCM, AC3 2.0, and AC3 5.1
13:08:29 [Mitch] PCM is pretty much uncompressed and created by PremierePro
13:09:05 [Mitch] AC3 2.0 is stereo and much more compressed than PCM, the audio quality is very good
13:09:31 [Mitch] AC3 5.1 is surround sound...a topic I don't know much about
13:10:24 [Mitch] In practice, PremierePro can create PCM, Encore can transcode PCM to AC3 2.0 or create AC3 2.0 from an AVI file
13:11:16 [Mitch] AC3 2.0 is a large improvement over PCM because it allows more room for the video, allowing for higher quality video on a DVD
13:11:41 [Mitch] I'm pausing here...any questions?
13:12:18 [psturgill] Does PPro use PCM by default?
13:12:24 [FM] I believe we can talk about 5.1 on a different discussion
13:12:32 [Nancy] great info so far Mitch.
13:12:46 [slakrboy] I have a program called Softencode, so I have alittle experience w/ AC3 5.1
13:12:56 [pgranadas] I had already a problem importing a PCM file to Encore. Any ideia why?
13:13:21 [Mitch] I believe PCM is the default...by the way PPro has supports a Mainconcept codec, the name escapes me, but shouldn't be used
13:13:36 [slakrboy] Sorry, don't have Encore...
13:13:37 [FM] one at the time please... lol
13:13:55 [slakrboy] Mainconcept is a MPEG encoder...
13:14:05 [Mitch] No, I don't know
13:14:29 [slakrboy] DVDit PE
13:14:43 [Mitch] yea but they have their own audio codec also, it isn't compatible with all DVD players
13:15:03 [slakrboy] Wow, didn't know that...
13:15:11 [pgranadas] FM> OK
13:15:50 [Mitch] pgranadas, let's discuss your problem at the end of the discussion, I haven't had any problems
13:16:39 [Mitch] ok, any other questions?
13:16:50 [slakrboy] Mitch, what is your experience when dealing with small GOP's?
13:17:07 [slakrboy] With HD on the way, this is going to become an issue...
13:17:23 [FM] how small?
13:17:31 [Mitch] Fernando should answer but it is really a matter of disk space
13:17:43 [Mitch] and quality
13:18:01 [FM] mitch is right
13:18:34 [slakrboy] Well, someone gave me one of those disks from DVD CAM, and I had to transcode it 'cause I couldn't do anything with it...
13:18:47 [Mitch] Smaller GOPs mean more disk space and higher quality
13:19:24 [Mitch] You're trying to edit MPEG2, that's the basic problem...
13:19:35 [slakrboy] Isn't the DVD standard 18 frames for NTSC (15 for PAL I think)?
13:20:02 [Mitch] Fernando, do you know?
13:20:09 [slakrboy] OK
13:20:31 [slakrboy] Maybe we'll take this offline for now, sorry for tying things up...
13:20:33 [FM] Got to my Glossary & search "Level"
13:20:46 [FM] ok
13:20:50 [Mitch] Good answer!
13:20:56 [FM] go on mitch
13:21:33 [Mitch] Ok...moving right along, I want to discuss Windows Media, RealMedia, and QuickTime in turn
13:22:06 [Mitch] We're all familiar to some degree with each of these but each has pros and cons
13:22:51 [Mitch] Windows Media Video...wow installed on 99% of computers, very good compression, pretty good, huh?
13:23:31 [Mitch] Not exactly....although Windows Media 9 is very good, it isn't installed on all computers
13:23:58 [Mitch] Only about 17% of Windows PCs run WinXP
13:24:29 [Mitch] Many people haven't upgraded to Windows Media 9....and many can't
13:25:20 [Mitch] Windows Media 9 has some requirements for video and sound cards that some PCs can't support, even those running WinXP
13:26:24 [Mitch] Encouraging people to install WinMedia9 may not be a good idea because the only way way to back it out is a system restore on many versions of Windows
13:27:18 [Nancy] interesting
13:27:23 [Mitch] Microsoft is their wisdom, pretty much dropped support for Netscape with Win Media9
13:27:35 [Mitch] and Opera, etc.
13:28:07 [Mitch] Although not initially supporting Macs, there is a WinMedia9 for Macs now
13:28:12 [pgranadas] Typical…
13:28:29 [Mitch] yes
13:28:29 [slakrboy] Is that a stand-alone or browser plug-in?
13:28:32 [psturgill]
oh boy.... I am out numbered today..
13:28:43 [FM] lol
13:29:03 [Mitch] slakrboy, I'm not sure...but I can point you to the download page
13:29:17 [slakrboy] Mac user Mac user...Burn burn burn...LOL
13:29:37 [psturgill] what does browser support have to do with Windows Media?
13:29:40 [Nancy] slak: as a netscape user, I've not been successful in getting winmed9 to install as a plugin
13:29:49 [slakrboy] Mitch, I'll check it out after this..
13:30:14 [Mitch] In fairness, Microsoft wanted to better integrate the Windows Media with IE, so some of what they wanted to do couldn't be accomplished with the other browsers
13:30:16 [psturgill] nevermind
13:30:30 [slakrboy] Nancy, buffer. I have followed along like a sheep, and accepted MS dominion!
13:30:48 [Nancy] and I refuse to do that. *S*
13:30:55 [pgranadas] LL
13:30:55 [psturgill] I too am in MS flock
13:31:02 [slakrboy] LOL
13:31:16 [Nancy]
not just in the flock Paul, but head cheerleader
maybe?
13:31:23 [Mitch] ok ok
13:31:48 [Mitch] One important additional point on Windows Media
13:32:18 [Mitch] I believe the Windows Media plug-in for Premiere doesn't always work correctly
13:32:34 [slakrboy] AMAN!
13:32:39 [Mitch] I personally always use the standalone encoder
13:33:19 [psturgill] what does not work? Are you talking about encoding in the WMV format from PPro?
13:33:30 [Mitch] slakrboy, did a tut on using the standalone encoder
13:34:03 [slakrboy] Paul, you are correct. I beat my head on the wall for a long time, then finally gave up on it.
13:34:08 [Mitch] paul, yes...to be clearer...transitions and effects and sometimes audio can not be rendered properly
13:34:31 [psturgill] oh..
13:35:06 [Mitch] I've seen the encoder complete faster than it would take to just render the video...I believe the plug-in isn't waiting for the rendering to complete correctly
13:35:44 [psturgill] never had any issues with it, but if I do, I know to use the stand alone encoder.. thanks
13:36:06 [suebob] Me too.
13:36:07 [Mitch] the plug-in does work correctly most of the time but reviewing video in detail to find errors became a waste of time
13:36:32 [slakrboy] You know, now that you mentionit, I do have slow hardware...
13:36:33 [Mitch] yep
13:36:49 [slakrboy] I guess I just never put 2 and 2 together
13:37:22 [Mitch] ok moving right along...RealVideo...
13:37:44 [Nancy] slakrboys video is on this page - for those interested. http://www.slakrboy.com/videos/videos.html
13:38:05 [Mitch] RealVideo9 has about the same compression as WindowsMedia 9, results may vary depending on type of video
13:38:35 [Mitch] It runs on every platform, even works with Netscape, etc.
13:39:22 [Mitch] RealNetworks has recently made available RealVideo10 which is suppose to be 30% better compression than WinMedia9 and RealVideo9
13:39:46 [Mitch] A plug-in for Premiere is suppose to be available this summer
13:40:05 [Nancy] realvideo9 encoding is available now in PPro?
13:40:19 [slakrboy] Do you know if it will support AP6.5?
13:40:21 [Mitch] Just a note: Real also has a free standalone encoder but it is pretty useless
13:40:44 [Mitch] slakrboy, yes I believe so
13:40:53 [Mitch] nancy, yes
13:41:39 [Mitch] the standalone encoder is useless because you can't modify the screen size, it must be 720x480 for NTSC
13:41:56 [Mitch] which is fairly useless for the Web
13:42:23 [FM] not even a default for PAL?
13:42:27 [Mitch] Everyone seems to complain about Real...too many Ads and stuff
13:42:56 [Mitch] I think it would use the PAL size but I haven't tried it
13:43:07 [FM] k
13:43:49 [Mitch] If you do install RealPlayer, uncheck the boxes to put shortcuts everywhere on your PC and
13:44:17 [Mitch] when a message pops-up, right-click and say you don't want the messages
13:44:34 [Mitch] just a couple of those and the messages will be gone
13:45:14 [FM] good
13:45:17 [Nancy] thanks
13:45:33 [Mitch] anything else on Real?
13:46:00 [FM] I'm ok
13:46:12 [Mitch] ok...times is running...QuickTime
13:46:36 [Mitch] QuickTime is actually the oldest of the media players discussed here
13:47:04 [Mitch] QuickTime isn't a codec/format itself but a container for many formats
13:47:36 [Mitch] The most popular are Sorenson, Sorenson3, Sorenson Squeeze, and MPEG4
13:48:03 [Mitch] All of these have worse compression than Real or Windows Media
13:48:29 [Mitch] MPEG4 is about 25% worse than Real and WinMedia
13:48:40 [slakrboy] I read an article about QT MPEG-4, and it lost in every catagory...
13:48:49 [Mitch] The others are just terrible...in my opinion
13:49:11 [FM] I concur with mitch
13:49:23 [Mitch] MPEG4 has been proposed as a standard for Web video but it seems unlikely
13:49:28 [slakrboy] QT Animation is good as an intermediate file, but its HUGE!
13:50:09 [Mitch] MPEG4 may live on as support in DVD players, interactive TV, and video on mobile phones
13:50:40 [Mitch] You need QuickTime Pro to produce a standard format MPEG4 file
13:50:55 [Mitch] That's $99, when I bought it at least
13:51:15 [Mitch] You can't create it from Premiere
13:51:54 [slakrboy] True, but QT Animation is still really good for Movie files between Premiere and AE, no quality loss (I like Huffyuv better, though)
13:52:05 [Mitch] Having said all that...if you need to reach people using Macs, providing a version in QuickTime is a good idea
13:52:26 [Mitch] slakrboy, you may be right
13:52:53 [Mitch] Mac people generally won't download "Windows Media"
13:53:02 [Mitch] Some have Real
13:53:36 [Mitch] i still get regular hits on my QuickTime videos, even though they are large
13:54:23 [Mitch] A couple of quick additional points: For both Real and QuickTime, implementation is important so that the video uses
13:54:49 [Mitch] progressive download, that is the video will play as it is downloading
13:55:14 [Mitch] It provides a better User experience...less waiting...
13:55:28 [FM] interesting
13:55:38 [Nancy] makes sense
13:56:18 [psturgill] Windows Media Server is supposed to enable a better buffering ability so that WMP does not buffer as much
13:56:32 [Mitch] One last note, stay away from the "x" codecs...they may provide great compression but aren't generally used
13:57:47 [Mitch] Paul, that a little different topic but I've had problems with the media servers from both Real and MS because the streams don't work well when the PC is behind a firewall
13:57:48 [slakrboy] A lot of ISPs don't want to have anything to do with Windows servers, which would be required. Take it from one who knows, Windows is security Swiss Cheese...
13:58:34 [pgranadas] slakrboy> LOL
13:58:35 [Nancy] "x" codecs are some of those built into PPro?
13:58:38 [Mitch] i use to do Internet security for a big financial company...I would have to agree
13:59:23 [Mitch] nancy, no
13:59:24 [psturgill] I think that we will find any OS has security issues...
13:59:28 [Nancy] thanks FM.
13:59:51 [Mitch] paul, yes i agree with that also
14:00:15 [slakrboy] Hello?
14:00:23 [Mitch] any questions, comments,...Have I slammed them all?
14:00:36 [slakrboy] Sorry about that, I must have lost the connections...
14:00:56 [Nancy] so the realmedia9 encoder in PPro works okay, just not the Widnows one?
14:00:59 [psturgill] So, since this was about codecs for the web... which would you recommend overall if we had to pick one single format to transcode to?
14:01:13 [FM]>[Mitch] Pretty much as far as I'm concerned
14:01:30 [slakrboy] MPEG-1 LOL
14:01:49 [Mitch] nancy, I haven't had any problems with Realvideo9 encoder in Premiere
14:02:05 [Nancy] thanks Mitch.
14:02:22 [Mitch] yea Mpeg-1...it plays on about any machine but is poor compression
14:02:29 [slakrboy] Seriously, I've narrowed it down to Windows media.
14:02:39 [Nancy] encoding using winmedia encoder: what reasons are there that it can't be encoded for win player 8?
14:03:06 [Nancy] wouldn't that increase the likely audience - percentages I mean.
14:03:08 [Mitch] I recommend that people provide several ir clients, including bandwidth choices
14:03:23 [Mitch] several choices
14:03:35 [psturgill]
I knew Mitch was going to say that... that is why I
specified ONE..
14:03:51 [FM] lol
14:04:19 [Mitch] Windows Media8 can be used and I still provide that to clients but it looks much worse than WinMedia9 because the compression is worse
14:04:21 [slakrboy] Most movie sites (Fanfilms.net, AlamDV) give you QT and WMV, sometimes DivX
14:04:22 [psturgill] I have to say Mitch... a little off topic... the server has kept up pretty well ....
14:04:59 [Mitch] yea, so far so good!!!
14:05:21 [Mitch] CNN uses Real
14:05:46 [psturgill] I personally download WMV if I have a choice between any of the 3
14:05:52 [FM] for those interested my glossary: http://www.nonoise.net/fm/modules/glossary/
14:06:01 [Mitch] Real has been losing share with major league baseball going to MSN
14:06:06 [psturgill] I don't even have Real installed... so if I come across a site that has it... I leave the site
14:06:12 [Nancy]
as much as I hate to do it, I guess I'll have to check
further on Real.
